This podcast episode features an interview with Monika Zabrocka, exploring creative audio description for children, neurodivergent inclusion, and the future of accessible storytelling.
Transcript
Mariana: Hi everyone. Welcome to the DARCI podcast, the podcast on disability, accessibility and representation in the creative industries. My name is Mariana López and I’m a professor in sound production and post-production at the University of York. For this episode, we have the pleasure of welcoming Monika Zabrocka. Monika is an assistant professor at the Chair for Translation Studies, Faculty of Philology at the Jagiellonian University in Kraków, Poland. She also collaborates with the University of York, where she recently completed a two-year research project funded by the Polish National Agency for Academic Exchange. The project explored creative approaches to audio description for young audiences. She obtained her PhD in linguistics in 2018 from the Pedagogical University of Kraków. Her doctoral thesis, titled “Efficacy of Audio Description dedicated to children within the functionalist approach to translation”, focused on the language of audio description aimed at children and teenagers. Between 2013 and 2025, she was engaged in the European Graduate Placement Scheme project, which sought to strengthen links between academia and the translation and language services market. In the 2018-2019 academic year, she spent four months at the Department of Communicative Sciences and Disorders at the Steinhardt School, New York University, as a recipient of the Kosciuszko Foundation grant. Her research there examined how audio description might support emotional processing in sighted children with intellectual impairments. In 2019, her proposal on the use of alternative audio description techniques in education was awarded the Seal of Excellence by the European Commission under the Horizon 2020 Maria Skłodowska-Curie Actions Program. Outside of work, she’s mom to three and a half year old Nicholas and enjoys cats, crime novels and traveling the world.
Mariana: Hi, Monika, thank you so much for joining us for today’s podcast. How are you doing?
Monika: I’m fine, and thank you for inviting me.
Mariana: Cool. So let’s get right into it.
Mariana: I was wondering if you could tell us a little bit about how you got started in the field of media accessibility and what is your main motivation to keep working in this area?
Monika: Well, that’s a really good question. And honestly, not an easy one to answer briefly. Back in my student days, when I was first thinking about staying in academia, I was studying literary translation. And I especially enjoyed working on children’s literature. It’s something I’ve always really valued. And the same goes for animated films. That interest naturally led me to think more about accessibility, about how accessible those kinds of media, those products of culture are for audiences with sight loss. What really struck me at the time was just how much was missing in terms of accessibility for children. And as you know, because you know me, I’ve always seen children as really special and very important audiences. That made me want to explore these issues more seriously from a research perspective. And more broadly, I think media accessibility is absolutely essential. It’s about equal access and ensuring everyone can experience culture and participate in it. So making media accessible isn’t just a technical challenge for me. It’s a way to promote inclusion and reduce inequality. The impact is real, giving this work a deep sense of purpose. And that belief remains one of my main motivations for working in this field.
Mariana: Oh, thank you so much. That’s a really, really great answer. And it’s really great to hear your passion on the topic. So thank you so much. So really following on that train of thought, a lot of your work has focused on audio description for children. And could you tell us a little bit more about why you feel this focus is of particular importance?
Monika: As I’ve said before, I find children really special viewers. That’s because for them, watching films or television isn’t just about entertainment, never ever. It’s part of how they learn about the world. Through audiovisual media children begin to understand things like storytelling, emotions, relationships and different points of view. There’s also the fact that children are just beginning to develop their media literacy, learning how to make sense of what they watch, critically engage in what they see and ask questions. Audio description plays a key role here, especially for blind children as it gives them access to the visual aspects - visual elements that their sighted peers take for granted. Without it, without audio description, they miss out on important parts of the story and can’t fully take part in it as viewers. And also for children, just like for adults, access to media matters socially. Blind children want to watch the same films and the same shows their sighted siblings, cousins or classmates are watching. I often go back to a moment from one of my first research projects at a school for blind children in Kraków. I asked a group of young (very young children in fact), what they would most like to access through audio description. And I expected answers like cartoon TV series, animated films or theatre performances. But no, every single child mentioned specific titles, films and TV shows that were popular at the time, showing in cinemas and reflected in children’s clothing, toys and everyday products, simply accessories they used. They want and need to be part of that cultural world. Children want and need to be part of that cultural world. And audiovisual media is a huge part of how they connect with others and feel included.
Mariana: Oh, thank you very much. That’s really, really interesting to go back to that first project as well and kind of reflect back on those findings. And another thing you’ve had a long lasting interest in is different forms of accessibility for blind and visually impaired children. So different ways of providing access. And I was wondering why you feel it’s important, why do you feel it’s important to look at more than what, you know, for the lack of a better word, we can think of as traditional AD. So why look beyond that?
Monika: Well, there are several reasons for this. First of all, when it comes to audio description for children, I believe that well-crafted, creative and unconventional approach can actually be more appealing than a typical description that follows all the standard rules. Children’s films are incredibly rich visually and audio description can or even should reflect that original aesthetic. Creative audio description is, in my opinion, much more effective at conveying the colourful and vibrant nature, not just in terms of colours of course, but the overall visual appeal. Sighted children have the visual show and blind children should be able to enjoy an equally engaging aural experience. As a translator, I see this as a kind of fidelity to the original, recreating the visual world through words and sounds to evoke in blind viewers the same feelings, the same emotions and aesthetic experience. Moreover, language itself is one of the first playgrounds for children. They really enjoy language games and puns. They love playing with words. It would be a shame not to use that in audio description, which should entertain, as I said, blind children just like the picture does for sighted ones, and provide similar stimulation. Unconventional audio description can also serve an explanatory or educational purpose, helping to clarify things that might not be immediately obvious. Plus, it helps children build their language skills by exposing them to rich vocabulary. So, there are plenty of reasons to promote creative audio description, especially in productions for children, and to introduce audio description creators to the possibilities available to them. They don’t have to produce something neutral. They can create something imaginative and engaging. And of course, with educational value.
Mariana: So Monika, you’ve talked quite a lot about the importance of what you refer to as creative audio description or unconventional audio description. Just for the listeners that maybe are less familiar with these terms, could you tell us a little bit about what these types of audio descriptions entail?
Monika: Of course, creative audio description is essentially any form of audio description that is non-neutral, that is less typical, simply unconventional. It might be written in the first person – from the perspective of one of the characters – or it could incorporate fragments from literary works. It might take an unusual form such as being written in rhymes, since children love rhymes. Or it might include neologisms, rhetorical questions or exclamations and other stylistic figures… alliterations, figurative language. It could also be written in more emotional, expressive language, explicitly naming emotions or explaining them, explaining situations and cause and effect relationships, and helping in this way younger viewers and those with cognitive difficulties. And when voice acting and sound effects are added to the mix, the creative possibilities truly become vast. I can say: sky’s the limit.
Mariana: Thank you very much. And just because this podcast is done in the framework of the Enhancing Audio Description project, it’s worth noting for listeners that the AD methods we work on are classified as a form of unconventional audio description or creative audio description for the lack of other terms. So thank you so much for clarifying that.
Monika: Thank you.
Mariana: Another really important and innovative part of your work is looking at how audio description can also benefit neurodivergent children. Could you tell us a bit about your work on this topic?
Monika: Okay, I started thinking about this professionally because there’s still far too little audio description in the media, especially in Poland, where I live. There are many reasons for this, but one key issue is that the group seen as benefiting from audio description is still considered very small. So people may ask why to go to all that effort if it’s just for a handful of blind adults or blind children. That’s why I try to present audio description not just as a tool for blind children only, but as an accessibility and educational tool that can support a much wider group, including neurodivergent children, children with attention deficit disorders, and even neurotypical ones for whom audio description can simply be another helpful source of information. Showing how well-designed creative audio description can benefit the broad range of young audiences might help increase its presence in the media and in turn, as a consequence, its availability. And as you mentioned, I’ve led several projects looking at how audio description works for children and young people on the autism spectrum, those with Down syndrome or with intellectual or psycho-emotional disabilities. I began this line of research just after my PhD, during a post-doc at New York University. I had planned to replicate the study conducted in the USA, in Poland, after my return, but the pandemic disrupted those plans and it wasn’t until recently that I finally managed to complete the Polish part of the study and analyze the results. And now I’m working on turning it into a journal paper. Another article on emotionally tuned audio description as a tool (for) supporting autistic children has finally, after a very, very long preview process, been accepted for publication. It will be published soon in the Journal of Children and Media. Overall, I believe showing how accessibility tools can support a wider audience, not just blind or deaf individuals, is a crucial part of both my research and outreach work. And I plan to keep exploring these ideas.
Mariana: Thank you very much. That’s great. And are there any exciting forthcoming projects you can tell us about?
Monika: Good timing, Mariana. [both laughing] I’ve just been awarded a grant from the Polish National Science Centre.
Mariana: How wonderful!
Monika: Thank you. In October I’ll officially be starting a new research project focused on creative subtitling techniques. I’ll be working alongside psychologists and experts in neurocognitive research, as well as a German group called FONT, who are developing an AI-based app for generating subtitles with visual features that respond to the emotional tone of a film scene. Basically, the idea is to move beyond traditional subtitles and explore how visually expressive subtitles, ones that reflect the mood or emotional intensity of a scene might support viewers understanding and enhance the overall experience with any audiovisual production. The project aims to investigate how these kinds of non-standard subtitles could improve accessibility, help with information processing and ultimately make broadcasts more both inclusive and engaging for different groups of viewers. At the moment, I don’t even have the full team in place yet. It’s still early days, but I’m really excited about the project itself and the direction it’s going in. And I hope, of course, to be able to share more very soon.
Mariana: Thank you very much and congratulations. That’s wonderful news.
Monika: Thank you.
Mariana: And a question that we like to ask everyone that comes on the podcast is, what are your hopes for the future of accessibility in the creative industries?
Monika: In short, more accessibility and more creativity in how that accessibility is delivered. I’d love to see accessibility become far more common and embedded in every part of the, let’s call it, media and cultural industries. People should have real choice when it comes to access, whether it’s audio description, subtitles for dead viewers, simplified subtitles or sign language. Everyone should be able to choose what works best for them. And when it comes to things, to tools like audio description and subtitles, I really do hope we’ll see more creative approaches that feel like a more natural part of the film or show, not just something added in post-production, even if added in post-production. I believe it’s something you hope for, too. At best, in the future, accessibility will be built into the creative process right from the start, treated with the same care as sound or visuals. And that kind of shift would mean we are not just ticking a box, but genuinely creating media that includes everyone. And that’s something I’d really love to see. Maybe it’s a bit idealistic, but who knows? Time will show.
Mariana: But we do need to be idealistic, don’t we? We have to dream big, otherwise we don’t get anything. So thank you so much for this really, really insightful conversation. It’s been really lovely to welcome you to the podcast. Thank you so much.
Monika: Thank you very much.
Mariana: Thanks for joining us for this episode with Monika. Hope you enjoyed the insights into audio description for children. We’ll be back next month with more reflections on disability, accessibility and representation in the creative industries.